Neighbors Concerned about Flooding, Increased Impervious Surface in Proposal from Living Hope Community Church

At the last P&Z meeting the commission discussed Living Hope Community Church’s proposal to consolidate the lots known as 30 West End Ave and 38 West End Ave in order to expand the parking lot and to construct two buildings: one would be a new manse for the pastor and one would be a three-car garage with a 2-bedroom apartment for the associate pastor.

Drainage Versus Tidal Flooding

Commissioner Nick Macri noted drainage needs to conform to the town’s drainage manual to stem and mitigate flooding. But also, he noted the site is subject to tidal flooding, which has nothing to do with drainage.

“When the tide comes up during a bad storm, things will flood,” he said, adding, “The drainage mitigates the flooding from the rain and water on the site but it has nothing to do with tidal flooding which comes from a different direction and inundates all properties.”

“We have to keep that in the back of our mind,” Macri said.

38 West End Ave (left) in Old Greenwich, and 30 West End Ave at right is the living Hope Community Church, July 7, 2025

Attorney John Tesei represented the applicant. He was joined by landscape architect Matt Popp, engineer Tony D’Andrea and Joe Pecora, the owner’s project manager, as well as Rev. Jason Pankau who is senior pastor at the church.

Tesei said the idea of expanding the parking lot was to alleviate on street parking impacts on South End Court residents during services. The church seeks to increase from 70 regular spaces to 96.

The DPW Engineering Division recommended that the P&Z commission consider pedestrian connectivity and ADA compliance from the extended parking lot, and requested a sidewalk, but Mr. Tesei described it as a “sidewalk to nowhere” and a significant added expense at +/- $100,000.

“How does this site plan conform with the neighborhood character? The answer is that it does not. It also does not meet the standard of high quality of building design, neighborhood appearance and overall site design in general.”

– Valerie Maze Keeney, South End Court

He added that there was no requirement to provide sidewalks in a residential zone, though P&Z could recommend it.

Tesei said DPW Engineering Juan Paredes’ concern was about people walking from Sound Beach Ave to the “flea market” at the church.

The commissioners suggested he was referring to a “farmers market.”

“That can end, upon the commission just saying you should end it,” Tesei said.

P&Z chair Margarita Alban questioned whether the church had administrative sign-off for the farmers market.

“It’s an additional use,” she noted.

Zoning location survey

Zoning location survey

Public Comment

During public comment Tim Muldoon from 10 South End Court, which shares a large border with the church on the south side questioned why it was necessary to expand the parking lot.

“I’ve lived here for 8 years. I’ve ever seen the parking lot, other than two times – more than 65% full,” he said. “No one ever parks in the street so the idea that this is a benefit to the community is incorrect.”

He said the expanded parking lot would extend along his entire yard.

“So when we’re sitting out in our yard on a Sunday there will be cars within 15 ft of our property,” he said, adding that headlights already come into his home.

Also he said while tidal flooding was already an issue, the parking lot was proposed to be located where it will flood during a high tide.

“We also get, with one inch of rain, we got eight inches of water in the boundary at my property and the church’s property,” he added. “We’ve tried to plant trees there before, and they’ve died.”

Mr. Muldoon said there was no ability to screen the parking lot because of water, but he believed the problem could be solved because the church has room at a higher elevation to expand parking and it would not flood and would allow for proper screening.

Photo submitted with public comment: Craig Warwick

Photo submitted with public comment: Craig Warwick

Photo submitted with public comment: Craig Warwick

Craig Warwick of 28 West End Ave, across from the proposed new house, said floods commonly occur during storms, heavy rains or full moons with higher tides, and wondered if the church had investigated how often that road floods.

“I don’t understand the concept of building a home where the floods will continue to happen,” he said.

Ms Alban said the manse is proposed to be built 4 ft above the base flood elevation.

“They’ll be high and dry,” Alban said.

Mr. Warwick said his point was where the church sought to locate the house was would add impervious surface, as would the expanded parking lot.

He asked why it was necessary to locate the driveway for the new house on South End Court when the church had more property on the other side.

Ms Alban suggested attorney Tesei reach out and talk to neighbors.

“And when you come back we’d like a better understanding of the parking demand at the church and the need for expansion of the parking lot,” she added.

Valerie Maze Keeney from 5 South End Court, right across from the church, agreed with Mr. Warwick’s comments about frequent and historic flooding.

“You’re talking about adding over 12,000 sq feet of impervious space,” Keeney said.

Ms Keeney cited municipal code regulations with respect to site plan and special permit applications, starting with §6-15 3. “The core requirement is that there must be, ‘a high quality of building design, neighborhood appearance and overall site design.”

6-15(a)3

And §6-15 3(a) “A design in harmony with existing and/or proposed neighborhood appearance, as shown by the exterior appearance of the buildings, their location on the site, and their relationship to the natural terrain and vegetation and to other buildings in the immediate area.”

She cited §6-15(c) “The preservation and enhancement of historic structures, or structures that contribute to the architectural character of the town as determined by the Commission who may consult with the Historic District Commission.”

She also noted that §6-15(a)2 talks about preservation and enhancement of property values and preserving natural attributes, major structures and scenic views.

“Now, when you look at the property you see a beautiful old parsonage the church…built in 1900 and in front of it is a sweeping great lawn,” Keeney continued, adding that homes like Mr. Warwick’s nearby are Colonial with a historical village character.

“How does this site plan conform with the neighborhood character? The answer is that it does not. It also does not meet the standard of high quality of building design, neighborhood appearance and overall site design in general,” Keeney added.

Keeney said the two new structures were incongruent with the old parsonage.

“There is certainly no attempt at any coherence within what they’re looking to merge as the parcel. It doesn’t meet with special permit standards.”

She said it was not correct to say the ARC had approved the application.

“They did not approve. They punted,” she added.

Tod Klair, member and Elder at Living Hope Church said he had extensive construction experience and believed the scale of the proposed buildings was “perfect.”

“I think the engineering firm has done exactly what they have to do. Regarding why do we have more (proposed) parking, the neighbor proved why we have it. Yeah, you don’t want people walking from around the corner on his street, so we have more parking. I’m not sure why that’s a bad thing.”

Alban said given the fact the application was for a special permit use, the applicant would need to quantify the reason for adding impervious surface.

Lisa Madison, associate pastor and longtime member at Living Hope Church, said the farmers market had been at Old Greenwich School but became unworkable due to issues with pick up and the cost to move it to the Eastern Greenwich Civic Center had been too high.

She said the church did not charge the farmers market to use the church parking lot.

Ms Madison said Dana Evans had worked with the First Selectman to get the necessary permits.

Ms Alban said P&Z would double check the permits.

Madison said Mr. Muldoon was building on an open parcel behind the church.

“I see a little bit of a conflict there,” she said, adding that a new 2500 sq ft home was within the context of the neighborhood.

Photo submitted with public comment. Photo: Michael Fenn.

Photo submitted with public comment. Photo: Michael Fenn.

Michael Fenn from 346 Riverside Ave, said that over the years the church had installed a playground and sound/visual barriers, and the proposal to extend the parking lot would bring it closer to the tidal inlet, which he opposed.

He said the farmers market was already a loud weekly event and at night car headlights shine directly into his house.

“There’s no barrier or buffer. They recently cut back all the growth that was there for 30 years that was invasive,” he said. “There’s nothing in here that addresses the sound that carries over.”

Alban said the town regs that special permit uses should be respectful of the residential neighbors.

Reverend Jason Pankau said the church had doubled in size, which was why they were seeking a bigger parking lot.

“When we go to two services, it requires a larger parking lot,” he said.

“What we recommend to people is to create a greater gap between services,” Alban said. “Unless your goal is to have a joint coffee hour.”

“It is,” Pankau said.

Alban said the commission would like data on the congregations numbers – past and present – the number of seats and schedule of services, etc.

Mr. Pecora said the church had doubled in size and on Sundays cars overflow to South End Court.

“We worked really hard to make the architecture more in keeping,” Pecora said, adding that the setbacks complied with regs.

He added that the church had not removed foliage, only invasive vines.

Engineer Mr. D’Andrea said porous asphalt would allow filtration to move vertically through soil and stone, and then travel laterally through natural soils and vegetation before reaching the channel along Meadow Creek.

Ms Alban confirmed that the minimum parking requirement is 1 parking spot per 3 seats.

“The problem is he’s doubled his total congregants but he hasn’t changed the seating,” she said. “It would inform us what’s happened at the congregation.”

“The easy answer is he can have two coffee hours and then you wouldn’t have the impervious surface,” Alban said. “So let’s look at the numbers and decide then.”

The commission left the application open.